A few months ago, I posted here about my excitement for Plebbit and the promise it held for decentralization. I was convinced that a p2p social platform with a unique UI could be the future, with different UI of all social media…including Lemmy, a true alternative to centralized services. I saw the potential, and I wanted to believe in it.
Plebbit promised a lot of an innovative interface, decentralization, community driven governance. But after months of delays, vague updates, and little to no progress, it’s clear they never delivered. They had the right ideas but lacked the follow through to make them a reality. What was once an exciting project quickly turned into an example of what can go wrong when the hype overshadows the substance.
I wanted Plebbit to succeed, but in the end, I’ve realized that I’m better off sticking with what actually works.
If Plebbit had actually followed through on its promises especially with its vision of being a decentralized Reddit alternative. it could have been the best. The idea of a selfhosted platform, where users had true control over their content and communities, was a dream for those of us who wanted more than just another centralized app. It had the potential to be the go-to solution for anyone seeking real decentralization and p2p freedom. But unfortunately, that potential was never realized. Instead of delivering on its ambitious promises, Plebbit became just another project that failed to meet expectations, and the opportunity for a truly revolutionary platform faded away.
As someone who has never heard of that: What would have been its advantages over Lemmy?
It was supposed to be a lot more decentralized than Lemmy. Plebbit was built around a p2p protocol and the idea was that it wouldn’t rely on servers, everything would be fully serverless and self-hosted in a true decentralized way. What made it interesting was that it was planned to support multiple UIs, so people could use different frontends like their own version of Lemmy’s UI, or even something totally custom. A Lemmy style UI was even on their roadmap.
But the problem is… it never really happened. It’s been super slow because there are only like 3 devs working on it, and they’ve been trying to find more help for ages. The MVP still hasn’t come out, and I think the crypto side of it just scared people off or made things harder. I really believed in the idea at first, but now it just feels like vaporware.
“what made it interesting was that it was planned support miltiple UIs”
you may are interested into looking into the various LemmyUIs or Lemmy close alternatives like piefed when you like to test out frontends to see their quirksWe’re still working on it and getting very close to releasing MVP
There’s no real / true decentralization. You’re always dependent on something, somewhere in some way. It can be harder to shut it down but there’s also a point of failure somewhere. Blockchain is all fun and games until you’ve to consider resource waste and that you still need DNS and IPs working.
If we could achieve bittorrent decentralization along with their usage numbers, I’d consider it a success
bittorrent decentralization
True bittorrent decentralization never happened.
Elaborate
There’s no real / true decentralization
That’s not exactly true.
That said, you do need some form of centralized service to connect peers, but you can federate those. It’s only job would be to connect peers, and a STUN server w/ TURN fallback is usually the approach here. These instances don’t need to store any data long term, they just need to connect peers, and the client is free to choose any instance they want, or host their own.
That’s how Tor works (entry nodes), and most decentralized systems use a similar system.
One of the best parts here is that offline often just works, and you can sneakernet around firewalls (e.g. if you visit China or something), and all you need to do is connect to a local relay to find local peers.
Blockchain
My understanding is it’s only used for name resolution, so the number of data points here should be in the thousands, not millions or billions, so the resource usage should be minimal.
Basically, the blockchain is functioning as DNS here.
Yeah, I was pretty stoked for it too. As someone building something like this on my own time, I really want someone to beat me to the punch, because maintaining something like this isn’t something I really want to do.
Building something like this is hard, marketing a project is hard, and getting the timing right is also hard (major usability issues solved before everyone comes to try it out).
But yeah, I’m still here until I find something better.
Feel free to check out Seedit, it’s the most mature Plebbit client so far. There may be bugs here and there but we’re working on it every day to make it better.
Wow, that looks just like old Reddit, awesome!
Enjoy, it’s a bit buggy but we’re always looking for feedback and help if you’re interested. All code is open source and GPL v2
Yeah, I’ll check it out. It’s certainly an interesting approach. I’m interested to see how the moderation system ends up working in practice.
Each community (equivalent of subreddit) is essentially a keypair, and whoever runs the community and has access to the keypair can do whatever they want. They can ban people + assign moderators + etc, there are no global admins.
Sure, I’m just worried it’ll have similar problems as reddit, just without global admins to fix/enforce things. The creator of a community is rarely the right person make decisions long term. Moderation should be based on trust and merit, not first come first served because moving everyone to a new community is hard.
We had similar problems here on Lemmy when most of the popular communities were on Lemmy.ml and subject to their moderation.
But maybe it’s fine. It’s probably an improvement on Reddit, and maybe an improvement on Lemmy if it actually encourages more diversity in community ownership. I’ll certainly check it out!
Sure, I’m just worried it’ll have similar problems as reddit, just without global admins to fix/enforce things
I disagree, I think Reddit ruined their own subreddits. If you’re a community owner, you know your community best and know how to moderate it. They’re the most invested in it after all.
I think Activity Pub has a clear leg up in that you can be as decentralized as you’re comfortable.
Want to go full one-person instance? You got it. Want to host for your friends and family? Covered. Want to host for the general public? Can do. Don’t want to host at all? Pick your open instance and join the fun.
It sounds really cool, hopefully something similar will come one day, would be cool if one could create instances on github (or alternatives) for version control, posts would be markdown files, images would only be allowed as links to an image hosting platform (imgur, imgbb, etc.)
Having it be open source and every member with a fork (I don’t know if there’s a way to auto update forks) so we don’t risk losing everything if the host shuts down (I don’t use mastodon because apparently you can’t export posts)
The ui part would also be great, I really don’t like discord’s new one for example
nghhh maybe if I fail my university entry exam
posts would be markdown files
Seedit, which is a plebbit client actually parses posts as Markdown, try it on Seedit
images would only be allowed as links to an image hosting platform
It’s already this way with Plebbit, we only allow text.
Having it be open source and every member with a fork (I don’t know if there’s a way to auto update forks) so we don’t risk losing everything if the host shuts down (I don’t use mastodon because apparently you can’t export posts)
On Plebbit all clients are open source with GPL V2, they can also be self hosted easily with a single click. Check out seedit repository Seedit
I really don’t think that would scale at all. A reasonably popular community could have tons of simultaneous posts, and if everyone needs to sync before posting, that would suck. You could probably avoid the worst of it by having posts use uuids, but you’re going to have IO issues at scale. Also, would you need the full repo cloned? That can get big, and you generally only care about recent posts.
Also, if you’re doing the UUID thing, you’d have sort everything every time locally. That’s fine if you only have a few thousand posts, but if you get into millions or billions, it’ll get bad, especially if you’re dealing with files.
Databases solve these problems really well. Even a simple SQLite dB would be much better than a filesystem, like orders of magnitude better.
Agreed, I didn’t think it through much, I just really like markdown
Yeah, Markdown is pretty rad, and most of these Reddit alternatives use it. I’m working on my own and Markdown is definitely what I’m using.