Stupid law
Money can be changed into something that isn’t money, yet functionally works the same for a single transaction, very easily
Especially if you’re already committing crimes
This is as effective as DRM; it hurts law abiding citizens more than those breaking the law
No that’s not stupid. It adds a layer of friction for criminals. In Italy where this law already applies for 5000€ (before it was 2000) it helps reduce black market.
Source: I used to be paid in cash (illegally) and it was a pain in the ass to do anything so now I get paid lawfully and my boss pays taxes
Cash only tax free jobs are great IDK what you’re on about
Money can be changed into something that isn’t money, yet functionally works the same for a single transaction, very easily
Shops usually don’t accept “something that isn’t money” as payment.
This measure aims to make it harder for criminals to wash their illicit money using legit businesses.
Money is the universal way to exchange goods or services. Yes, you may be getting paid for your tax-doging renovation in gold, bitcoin or artworks. You may accept Monero or Roblox gift cards as a payment for drugs. And you might find other people who will accept Roblox gift cards, but that doesn’t scale.
But then you have 10.000€+ in Bitcoin or gold and need to exchange it into real money in order to use it. Your local supermarket will not accept gold. You may be able to buy a house with Bitcoin, but the seller also needs to launder this money into something usable.
The neat thing here is that this might work for some small drug dealer or some craftsman doing a few things off the book. But if you’re doing a lager scale operation, that will get harder
Exactly. Not a bug, as designed.
I’m OK with this law. Stops a 20-something from going into a shop with a bag of cash and walking out with a rolex or a luxury car. Plenty of drug dealers and other gangsters do this, and the police is annoyed.
Thankfully the police can now confiscate any item on you that you can’t prove is yours and how you legally got it.
Why should people have to prove that they got things legally to the police?
People won’t have to. Criminals though…
How do you determine if someone is a criminal? Also, pretty sure the law in post applies to everyone.
All laws apply to everyone, but not everyone is subjected to them. If you don’t have a drivers licence you’re not subject to laws related to driving a car.
Everyone is subject to laws related to driving a car. They’re not going to let you off the hook just because you don’t have a licence.
Yeah, that was my point? The laws apply, but you will never have to think about them.
Criminals are people. To act otherwise or to reduce their rights is the wedge issue of tyrants.
My bad, I should have said “ordenary people”.
Thankfully the police can now confiscate any item on you that you can’t prove is yours and how you legally got it.
You won’t be thanking them when a cop takes your shit because you don’t have your papers.
They obviously go through the legal system so it’s not confiscated forever if you can show that it’s actually yours. This is a law designed to remove expensive items from gansters. If you’re not doing shady shit you’ll never have anything taken from you by the police.
Stops a 20-something from going into a shop with a bag of cash and walking out with a rolex or a luxury car
I’m sorry, but what exactly is the problem with that
And also I don’t know what world you’re living in where a €10k car is considered luxury (unless you’re saying all cars are luxury, in which case we may have some common ground)
If a 20-something (or any-something, more importantly) has that money and they want to spend it, what’s the problem
Why should someone be made a criminal for selling a car for cash
Criminals use it to launder money. And it’s not only €10k, it’s €10k and above. So a 20 year old with no job or income comes into a dealership, buys an Audi RS3 for €80k in cash and we’re all supposed to pretend that’s fine?
If you have over €10k in cash and want to spend it, sure, go right ahead, but you’ll need to prove where you got it from. Banks have a KYC requirements, put the money there and arrange for a bank transfer. It’s not like cash is banned.
A 20 something walking into a shop with a duffel bag full of cash is definitely suspicious
Same with a 50 something walking into a car dealership with a briefcase full of cash. Or a 40 something buying a condo in Munich with cash. Something ain’t right here.
True but people at that age walking into places with that much cash are either white collar criminals or politicians and both are unfortunately more socially accepted than blue collar criminals.
That’s completely fucked. Why do you care if somebody wants to buy something nice in cash?
Look up “civil asset forfeiture” to see where the logical conclusion of your flawed thinking ends up in practice.
Inflation will do the rest.
Good. In Italy we have a 5,000 limit and it indeed prevents some illegal payments.
Bad, because running all payments through banking system is a systemic safety risk.
If banking gets paralyzed like in Greece during debt crisis you’ll be fucked.
As if rich scum haven’t been paying each other with “gifts” that were awfully money-shaped already. This fixes nothing.
Sure it does. It just doesn’t fix everything.
deleted by creator
I never met anyone who paid €10,000 in cash. Like, how is someone able to carry all that much? In a suitcase? You’d also be a walking target for robbery if someone knows you are carrying a suitcase with €10,000 in cash. That amount is life changing for most ordinary Europeans. €10,000 is not going to make someone rich, but it’s going towards savings for someone financially wise enough.
Edit: people are talking about it’s possible to carry €10,000 cash by saying they have €100 notes. But I thought they are out circulation precisely because of money laundering and criminal transactions?
deleted by creator
500,- € notes or 60 200,- € notes, you surely don’t need a suitcase, an envelope is absolutely enough.
Aren’t those notes banned? I have never seen €500 and 200 notes in years. Unless…you are saying something…
deleted by creator
10,000 is just not what it used to be. For example if you are renting a house where you need a damage deposit and to pre-pay the first and last month’s rent. That easily blows past 10,000 these days for a completely normal transaction. Same for most used vehicles.
This comment is poorly informed. Private car sales use cash a lot. 10,000 isnt suitcase worthy. Any volume of cash of a target. €10,000 being life changing is suspect, in what regard is it specific to europeans.
Yeah fair enough. Someone mentioned they could carry €10,000, somehow, when I could barely fit wads of €50 bills in my wallet. So I doubted people paying in cash with €10,000.
€10,000 is a handsome amount of money to have. That’s why I put the caveat “someone financially wise enough”. From my experience, a lot of people spend more beyond their means, and then complain they can’t afford a house or raise a family. I am no faulting people, but most of us have been conditioned with the old assumptions that working alone could allow us to travel, party in our youth, and then afford to save later for a home. Nobody taught us about inflation.
Payment for surgery to doctors who arent allowed to be paid, in a failed universal healthcare system. Or doctors who want to tax evade. This is a necessity if you want your poorer country to keep any decent doctors. Because why would any doctor work for 1500€ when they can easily migrate and find a job for 10k+.
Because why would any doctor work for 1500€ when they can easily migrate and find a job for 10k+.
Because most people like living at home with their family and friends. Money isn’t everything.
Sure but there is a point where moving elsewhere becomes almost mandatory. For many highly skilled people in poorer EU countries, migrating to the Imperial core is a no brainer.
Another step towards the digital EU, where the banks can track all of your movements and the government can deny any purchases they don’t like.
Get fucked.
This is basically the Scandinavian model. Have never had a transfer blocked in the last decade. Good thing we don’t have US government here in Europe, so we don’t need to adopt the US scepticism of government.
deleted by creator
Are you serious? Lime 50% of EU states are about to elect facist governments. Italy already has.
And other valuables north of 10’000 €?
I’ve never paid for anything that expensive in cash. To those opposing the idea: Have you? Did it need to be cash?
Bought my first car using cash, this was the early 2000s - and was (at the time) the most available way for a teenager to transfer funds to another person.
I will say, my heartbeat walking out of the bank and to my mum waiting in her car would have set a world record high.
This has been the law in the US for a long time already. Not exactly illegal, but any cash transaction $10k+ legally requires federal documentation. This gets at what people misunderstand about crime and money laundering. Money laundering=paying taxes. Once you are making real money “under the table”, you have to find ways to pay taxes, if you want to be able to buy cars/houses/etc
Why not “have to be registered with the government”? That’s still allow law abiding citizens to do whatever they want with their money.
Also, people saying digital money on your local bank is different than paper money of the central bank; both are merely a promise. Back in the day the promise was related to a value in gold, now either are relatively empty promises. All banks do is keep track of the numbers, a bank note is proof your unregistered number is valid.
How exactly would a payment registered with the government be “whatever they want”?
I get, that cash is a critical exchange method and shouldnt be limited. This forces people to use banks and/or online payment providers
Registering is not limiting people’s actions though. You can drive your car wherever you want yet it carries two plates making it very clear it is registered and if you break a rule it can be traced back to you. Sure criminals can use fake or stolen plates, but my point is that registering a transaction means you can still make that transaction. If it is a lawful transaction it does not limit your movement.
Interestingly (or not), we also mostly (or is it totally?) got rid of 500 € bills because they made moving around large amounts of cash too easy.
Welcome to Scandinavia, where I have seen cash in the last five years, but only from dealers.
Cash is under attack worldwide. Whenever this topic comes up, I want to express my sadness that crypto didn’t seem to fill this hole, even though it’s more than capable.