Linux phones are still behind android and iPhone, but the gap shrank a surprising amount while I wasn’t looking. These are damn near usable day to day phones now! But there are still a few things that need done and I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts on these were:
1 - tap to pay. I don’t see how this can practically be done. Like, at all.
2 - android auto/apple CarPlay emulation. A Linux phones could theoretically emulate one of these protocols and display a separate session on the head unit of a car. But I dont see any kind of project out there that already does this in an open-source kind of way. The closest I can find are some shady dongles on amazon that give wireless CarPlay to head units that normally require USB cables. It can be done, but I don’t see it being done in our community.
3 - voice assistants. wether done on device or phoning into our home servers and having requests processed there, this should be doable and integrated with convenient shortcuts. Home assistant has some things like this, and there’s good-old Mycroft blowing around out there still. Siri is used every day by plenty of people and she sucks. If that’s the benchmark I think our community can easily meet that.
I started looking at Linux phones again because I loathe what apple is doing to this UI now and android has some interesting foldables but now that google is forcing Gemini into everything and you can’t turn it off, killing third party ROMS, and getting somehow even MORE invasive, that whole ecosystem seems like it’s about to march right off a cliff so its not an option anymore for me.
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I already don’t have any of those things on my de-googled android. I’m used to it. Sure, they would be nice, but it’s not a dealbreaker that I have to tap a card instead of my phone, or use Bluetooth instead of carplay, or type on my phone instead of talking to it.
Don’t want or need any of those things you mention. I want a phone, I want to be able to send messages, I want GPS and a camera. Good battery life, wifi and enough memory and storage… And then privacy…
tap to pay
I don’t see why the Linux kernel couldn’t add support for NFC devices or someone couldn’t write a driver. I always pay for everything in cash anyway.
voice assistants
I know there are foss and local-only voice assistants for Android so it is possible. You’d be limited by the computing power of a phone so eg I imagine running ollama on a phone would be a huge battery drain.
I don’t use any of the “needs” you mention (phone payments, carplay, voice anything) and can’t see any of them as necessary. I can see thinking of them as cool, but that is different. I don’t particularly think they’re cool, but that’s just me.
That said, Linux is mostly a desktop system with a CLI and some GUI tools. Phones as we know them have considerably different requirements. Linux could be underneath it all, like it is in Android, but at the end there is a lot more besides LInux and its apps.
I did use Meego/Maemo for a while (Nokia N900 and N9) and they had nice aspects, but the phones were way too small and slow.
huh? which linux phone got useful since you’d stop looking? I run pmOS edge on competent hardware with lotsa RAM and fast storage and that thing isn’t even close to being usable in everyday life.
just basic stuff, like turn it on and it works. the keyboard works. an intuitive UI that you use while walking and dodging other pedestrians. a rock-solid base that doesn’t freeze and stutter with the menial-est of tasks.
the three things you mention couldn’t be farther from my mind if I wanted to.
It’s an interesting discussion to witness in these posts: convenience vs privacy and control.
The convenience and integration you get with commercial products like IOS or Android comes at a price. Everything that matters to you on a daily basis bundled together in one convenient package means that all things which define you as a person are conveniently interconnected for corporations to sell out your data for everyone who wants it.
GPS: your current whereabouts at any moment in time and a complete history of where you have been in the past
Payment functions: what you are buying and where you have bought it
Communication (Messengers, Phone): Who you communicate with and what you are talking about
Photos and Videos: Real life evidence from all the stuff mentioned above.
Web Browsing: Interests and Needs which will be used against you in a totalitarian surveillance state, at a glance
If you in 2025 still think this convenience is there to please you as a consumer I have bad news for you.
Convenience and interconnection of services look nice and useful but at the same time they’re a privacy nightmare that makes Orwell’s 1984 look like a bedtime story for children.
What this all comes down to: Strictly airgapping the boundaries between the different services is the only way to have a modicum of privacy. Photos do not belong in a cloud controlled by someone you don’t know and should be taken from a separate device. Navigation belongs on a separate device with no internet connection, payment should not be done with a personal identifier at all (if avoidable) etc. Living your life this way might seem terribly inconvenient, but as someone who was alive at a time where all this convenience didn’t exist I can tell you it has its advantages too. You’ll rediscover what really matters.
Seeing where desktop Linux was just less than 10 years ago and where it is now gives me optimism for mobile Linux. But I suspect the overlap between developers and users of those 3 features is pretty small, so they might be a ways out.
I was about to suggest getting a head unit that isn’t tied down to CarPlay or Android Auto, but then I realized I drive a really old car from the days you’d easily take out the faceplate or the whole unit to deter theft.
Yea, modern vehicles tie a lot of things into the head unit and they just aren’t possible by going third party. But using the CarPlay/AA feature could be a way to bring similar choice to a system that is otherwise locked-in
62 comments and not a-one mentioned Sailfish OS yet?
Yes, it’s not 100% open source, yes, it used to do business with Russia but not anymore since 2022, yes, it only supports a few Sony phones (available cheaply on the used market) but it is a 100% Linux operating system!
It has been my daily driver for 5 years now.
Also, Finland bonus.
tap to pay. I don’t see how this can practically be done. Like, at all.
The same way it was done with Google, Samsung and Apple. Just has to become more popular until banks and credit card companies will have to work with developers to make it happen.
android auto/apple CarPlay emulation.
Again, it will have to require the compliance of OEMs. However I see the entirety of these systems disappearing soon as more OEMs want to lock users into paid subscriptions for such features.
voice assistants
I’m not convinced this will ever be useful. Several of the largest tech companies on the planet have tried and all have failed miserably to produce anything useful for decades at this point.
Didn’t blackberry have a fairly good solution where they had an android sandbox running within their OS?
What phones are adviceable these days for a daily driver? Is there any of them where ALL of the hardware does actually work? As in, most of the ones I’ve seen in the past had major bugs blocking from using either the mobile network, the camera, the sensors or just about everything that wasn’t just the screen and touch input. I have a spare Pixel 7 and a Pinephone Pro (that I never got to work too reliably) I keep around for possible testing of stuff.
Ive heard hood things about the FLX1 but I havent tried it myself.
Im very tempted.
How old are you that you “need” these things.
Is not being able to use tap to pay, or having to plug in an aux cable really that big of an inconvenience?
Phone projection for navigation has been significantly better than any built-in navigation on any car I’ve ever driven. The vehicle screens are typically larger than a phone screen so that’s a really nice feature to me.
I’m 31 and would need those things. Makes driving a car how I want much easier. No awkward looking mounts anywhere. Plus I use a super tiny android phone at the moment so instead of looking at a postage stamp for a map I get to look at the big head unit.
Okay I don’t drive so im a bit out of the loop on this but last time i rented a car some 15-20 years ago it had GPS built in that didn’t require connecting, it was a tablet sized interface on the console… is that not a thing anymore? Like do cars in 2025 not have functioning GPS without a phone connected to them? Thats wild if so. A 2008 Toyota Prius could have a built in console navigation system, it ran off a DVD or USB key that you got updates for by mail, and here we are in 2025 you need a phone just to power the cars computer for navigation.
car head units kind of have no knowledge about traffic, construction, and what restaurants are open
Built in gps is a bit shit now and my current car actually doesn’t have one unless i buy an overpriced encrypted sd card with the map data that if i want to update the maps for, have to buy again.
Phones and their map apps allow me to have up to date mapping that also show where there’s roadworks and closures so i can be rerouted elsewhere which is a godsend when you’re in a town or city you’re not familiar with.
Edit: built in now may not be shitter than it was but it is shitter than the new alternatives via android auto (i also don’t use Google maps by the way)
By that logic, I dont need a phone on me at all times and should just go back to a landline, pay cash for everything, and damn everything convenient.
Some of us use these things and we want to switch to a system free from powerful tech bros. People like you tell us we are a problem for wanting features. That’s a ridiculous thing.
I’m not going to screw with a cell phone while driving. Using the large screen I can quickly glance at, tap what I need or use a voice command on and get my eyes back on the road makes far more sense.
Im not saying its a problem to want features, just saying its sacraficing freedom for convience, its a choice.
If you really wanted to use a Linux phone, there are options. You would have to adapt, you would have to use non-standard solutions, but in the long run you’d have more freedom because of those sacrifices in convenience.
None of the 3 things you mention was common place 10 years ago, its not that much of a setback to carry cash or a card, or to use a dedicated device for navigation. Its fine if you dont want to do that but dont act like you can’t live without tap2pay or a voice assistant if you really wanted to.
Tap to pay is essential to me. I never carry anything more than my phone, so no credit/debit card.
So what happens if your phone is lost or stolen or damaged? How would you pay for a new phone?
Taking the CC out of the sock drawer, at home. That’s an edge case though. That’s not what we are solving for the other 99.99% of the time …
So you sacrafice your ability to use a more free device because youd rather leave your credit card at home, but thats A choice that you made. If you wanted you could bring a card with you or cast with you or a wallet full of things. Do you not carry ID with you either?
Honestly tap2pay seems like very little advantage over a credit card for having to sacrafice privacy and the ability to control the software on my phone, but thats just me.
As cardfire said, I just have to take my debit/credit card from where it’s usually stored. I have never lost or damadeged my phone since I got one in 98, that’s more than an hedge case.
And I can also buy on the internet without needing physical access to my cards.
The only use case for physical cards is unfortunately gas stations. So 6 times a year in average I need them.
And what did you do five years ago or ten years ago? At what point did Tap to Pay become so convenient and so essential to your life that you’re willing to give up your ability to have complete ownership and control over what’s installed on your phone rather than go back to having a card on you?
It just doesnt seem like that big of a deal to me, but then i never was able to use it anyway because ive been running grapheneOS or another custom rom since before tap2pay even existed.
It became so convenient and essential for me like 8 years ago. When I leave the house I only need my tiny phone and my house key (and sometimes my car key) and that’s it. That’s nice. I don’t want to have to carry more on top of what I already do.
Tap to pay was relatively common even 10 years ago in US cities. I’ve been tap to pay almost exclusively for 5 years.
Mind you the US is BEHIND on tap to pay technology compared to other countries.
It was not that common 10 years ago, it was only JUST being fully rolled out in the US in 2015 when they finally made it mandatory for cards to have chips in them. I guess I’m just an old man yelling at clouds here, but i just never really felt like using cash or a card was that inconvenient.
I suppose for you tap2pay is as essential as being able to run custom software on my devices is to me, I have been using custom roms since 2009 and I wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice my ability to use GrapheneOS just so i can carry one less card that i can literally fit in my phone case, but hey, different strokes ig.
1, use contact less smartcard , they are passive devices
2. get a used phone just for that
3. use one of the open source one, anyway siri and the google one are trash abandonned in 2012