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Well duh, it’s a defensive alliance.
Tell that to the people of yugoslavia in 1999
That was a humanitarian intervention to STOP a genocide.
I bet most were happy that the Serbians were reigned in. Even many Serbians.NATO has intervened in situations where they had a UN mandate.
Should’ve bombed Israel while there was still something left of Gaza then
Absolutely. But USA has gotten steadily worse, esp. since Bush.
I know Serbians in the celebrity world of the country. They hate NATO for stepping in. We used to get into arguments about it.
They hadn’t in Serbia. Not every illegal attacking war is bad. Reality is messy.
I bet most were happy that the Serbians were reigned in.
83 upvotes for this… Man this species is doomed…
Also NATO in 1999 had used military force without the expressed endorsement of the UN Security Council and international legal approval.
NATO has intervened in situations where they had a UN mandate.
Ah, so it’s not a defensive alliance. Thanks for confirming.
Well… I think a lot of people in Iran are also happy about these strikes.
But that does not change the fact that Nato is clearly not only defensive.
I don’t get the downvotes, you are correct. The OP’s comment that NATO only intervenes defensively is clearly wrong.
Should they intervene here? No, definitely not because this is a stupid, stupid war, and that’s reason enough.
I think it’s my mistake for wording my comment in such a way that it sounds like I think the intervention in Yugoslavia was bad. That was not the point I was making, but I see how it could be interpreted as such.
Your mistake is disagreeing with a comment that said “NATO good”. The nature of the disagreement is irrelevant. It’s the centrist form of the tankie purity test.
They were defending those people, no?
I did, they were in my class growing up in Canada, they said thanks. Have you talked to any of those people who fled that genocide?
Not my point at all. I did in no way say it was unjustified. I was just saying it was offensive and thus contradicted what the original comment said.
Yea… poor Yugoslavia that already faced three UN resolutions concluding their violation of basic human rights wasn’t allowed to go on with their ethnic cleansing. Shocking! /s
Correct me if I’m wrong. But the UN didn’t mandate the intervention, right? Therefore nato was in violation of international law.
But that’s besides the point. I commented under a commenting claiming Nato is purely defensive. Which it clearly isn’t.
But the UN didn’t mandate the intervention, right?
Pretty hard to get the UN to mandate anything substantial if there’s almost always a veto power protecting its pawns…
Now your moving the goal post. I’m not arguing about if the UN is effective or not. Just arguing that the UN didn’t sanction the bombing, unlike you implied.
If there’s ethnic cleansing going on, do you want to wait for the UN to act (in vain, because veto powers) or do you act based on the principles the UN should act on if it actually worked?
Because let’s not pretend that the UN actually decided on the substance of that matter and decided against it based on what was happening. It never decided solely due to political reasons and its architecture.
If you want to hold that against NATO, fine. Sometimes, being technically correct isn’t the thing to aspire.
So, when Israel…
You are clearly right. It was an illegal attack.
Or Bosnia in 95
Nato intervened when Serbian forces committed genocide against the Bosnians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Warthe July 1995 Srebrenica massacre later became iconic of the conflict. The massacre of over 8,000 Bosniak males by Serb forces
That’s when NATO decided to intervene.
How come the one conflict where NATO was in the right and defended an ethnic Muslim minority is what people chose to die arguing against
Because it made Russia and China really nervous and that’s the propaganda they choose to spread through leftist circles.
*rightist
Well they both hate NATO now yeah.
I see your point but it was an offensive action. But in defence, I suppose.
Was Bosnia a member of NATO in 1995?
That was four years before 1999.
After popular pressure, NATO was asked by the United Nations to intervene in the Bosnian War after allegations of war crimes against civilians were made.
On 6 February 1994, a day after the first Markale marketplace massacre, UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali formally requested NATO to confirm that air strikes would be carried out immediately.[12] On 9 February, agreeing to the request of the UN, NATO authorized the Commander of Allied Joint Force Command Naples (CINCSOUTH), US Admiral Jeremy Boorda, to launch air strikes against artillery and mortar positions in and around Sarajevo that were determined by UNPROFOR to be responsible for attacks against civilian targets.
So far the only country I’m not appalled by their reaction is Spain. The rest are all so luke warm or plain wtf. Specially Germany. I feel like since WW1 they have an subscribtion on standing on the wrong side. Today they called in Iranian diplomats to tell them they should adhere to the rules of war and not bomb civilians.
Meanwhile Israel started off the war by bombing a primary school & hospital. But that’s cool for the German goverment since Israel did not confirm they did it. So they are obviously adhering ho the rules of war.
Here’s the problem, the second we (Germans) criticize Israel in any shape or form, they start calling us Nazis again. The vast majority of Germans disagree with war to solve problems.
let them call you nazis. criticize them and let people see the truth and whether it is you or them that is the nazi.
Thank you Rutte.
Dear Donald, please now apply the same trade war to all NATO nations as you have to Spain. I dare ya’.It’s a tragedy other countries provide even passive support, and continue to support Israel even after Gaza genocide, which still continues, even if it’s not during or for this campaign specifically. Years of human rights and international law violations, and there’s no strong opposition or distancing. That initiative is hard to swallow.
That is good news and i fully agree. Fighting alongside the MAGA and Israeli nutters is not worth a single EU bone. Furthermore, we have the fucking Muscovites to worry about.
Strongly hoping for someone to just bomb the US and make them stop their crimes against humanity. They have so much real state to conquer and split and govern after that…
We had that in 2001. Didn’t go so well…
Trump is already doing that, but through a different route. They don’t need to bomb there. They’re using other means.
Oh, sure, most EU countries allow US bases to be used but we can al be grateful NATO won’t join the war…
“They will join it individually”
Merz is puppet of USA like this guy explained : https://lemmy.world/post/43726633/22438250
No shit point to me in the map where Israel is in the North Atlantic.
Turkey is not either. But Israel is no Nato member.
Israel is much more than a NATO member, Israel is actually important to America
israel and america are the same entity, so israel is in the north atlantic
Expected
Rutte can go and get fucked.
He is a lapdog to the USA and doesn’t protect or advocate for European interests.
I expected better from Europe but you’re all just colonialists.