Nazism and communism are completely different concepts.
Nazism and communism are completely different concepts.
In theory only, you are right.
But Fascism and Communism share a lot in practice though. Both use absolute rule and an authoritarian state as a mean to control populace. No democracy, rule of law, human rights.
Communism is not, by definition, authoritarian rule. Sure, a lot of examples exist where that’s the case, but that’s only because anything less couldn’t withstand the CIA starting a coup. It isn’t required, but you need something strong to resist anti-leftist governments doing everything they can to overthrow you.
The USSR did exist “in spite of the CIA” and look how well that went.
Yeah, after WWII they had to maintain a strict authoritarian rule to root out traitors and espionage and even still it eventually got beaten.
You do realize that the argument you are making is “rich bullies will always ruin attempts at socialism so we should just let those rich bullies have all the power because at least we’re not being oppressed by a government”
All the other countries faced similar challenges, and despite that they didn’t all turn violent dictatorships. You just try to blame all the horrors of communism in the twentieth century on others.
Which is really fun because in creating the authoritarian state you’ve undermined communism in ideology and remain as such in name only.
Listen, people from the former Soviet bloc, we get it, you were traumatized. But you can’t just blanketly force your bad experience on the rest of us. In much of the world, the polarity of your experience was reversed. Communists were (and are) the people arguing for democracy for human rights and for liberty. And they were the people persecuted and jailed and tortured for this. Joke all you like, but it’s just simply historical fact in places ranging from Spain and Greece to like Indonesia and Nepal. And in those places, the conflation of communism and Nazism as “totalitarianism” is just obscene.
In France in particular, I mean look at the tricolour: socialist ideas are part of what being French is. And this fascist mayor is doing something obscene, essentially lumping the collaborationists and the pétainistes together with the people who fought against them for a free french people.
Yes, your experiences are valid, but they are not the only ones that are valid.
Listen, people from the former Soviet bloc,
I’m confused who you’re addressing your comment to. The article is about a French town. That’s not the former soviet bloc.
You got kicked in a head by a horse? Your “argument” is equal to saying “Nazis werent all bad, they build highways.” Shame on you.
No it’s not the same. I’m not saying communists built stuff. I’m saying communists fought and got persecuted for democracy and human rights. This is actually historically true in places like the ones I mention in my post, places like Greece, Chile, Indonesia, etc. Show me one fucking place in the world where Nazis/fascists fought for democracy and human rights. I’ll wait.
Communist never fought for democracy but for communism. The stuff you are mentioning was the same stuff NSDAP fought four because it was socialist as well. You are unaducated idiot supporting murderous regime. You are ommiting milions of people who died as direct result of communism either as enemy of the regime or in famine. In my country it is a crime to deny the crimes of nazi and communist regimes on the same level, because they are equally dangerous and are equally horrible. Again, shame on you, go masturbate over Marx, Lenin and Mao somewhere else.
I’m not denying the crimes of communist regimes. See my first post. Millions suffered under them, and that pain deserves full recognition. Those experiences are valid.
But my point wasn’t “Stalin good.” My point was that in places like Greece, Spain, Chile, Indonesia, and others, communists were the ones who resisted fascists, fought for democracy, and were jailed or killed for it. That’s a historical fact, whether you like it or not.
Nazis never fought for democracy, ever. That is also historical fact.
And that’s the difference. Saying that Nazis were socialists is a tired talking point that is false and debunked.
If you want to argue history, bring evidence. If you just want to throw insults, then you’re not debating, you’re venting. Go vent elsewhere.
Despite strong opposition from left-wing representatives, Frédéric Masquelier, the mayor of Saint-Raphaël on the French Riviera, unveiled France’s first monument to the “victims of communism” on Saturday, August 23. Masquelier, a member of the right-wing party Les Républicains, said, “Nazism and communism (…) are two sides of the same tragic coin.” The monument depicts a man pushing back two massive blocks and was placed next to a memorial dedicated to the martyrs of the Resistance, many of whom were communists.
Other than the obvious “mayor is a fascist” part, why the fuck does a French town need a monument for “victims of communism”? Communist Russia and China were very brutal, but what exactly did they do that directly affected France? Surely the monument is not for the handful of French communists who lived in the USSR and were victims of various purges.
I disagree with the monument itself, but to also remember the victims of the socialist dictatorships (Holodomor, big leap forward, red Khmer, and many others) is not a bad thing. And why there? Because the places where it happened might not want to remember them, e.g. look at Russia and how it handles it Soviet Union past.
While it’s on the fascist side instead of the socialist, Berlin for example has a monument to the forced prostitution during Japanese colonialism. And Germany was not involved there either, but it’s still worthwhile to remember it, since Japan tries to hide it.
Berlin is like 50 times larger than that French town, though - it’s not completely absurd for Berlin to have an entire collection of such monuments, and on top of that Germany was allied with Japan during WW2 and thus had at least some involvement in it.
That downvote wasn’t me, BTW.
So they should not stand up against Israel (for example)?
Empathy. That’s why.
Big difference between standing up against oppression and erecting monuments. I guarantee that this town doesn’t have a growing collection of monuments dedicated to victims of oppression around the world and doesn’t plan to, either.
This thread feels like i just sat down for some coffee and a cigarette at a corner cafe on a cool April morning in Paris, 1871…
“…two sides of the same tragic coin.”
Well that’s just a bad metaphor. Now I dislike this mayor for two reasons.
Never would have thought there are so many supporters of oppressive regimes here on lemmy.
Oh, silly French. Everybody knows communism was better… at killing and oppressing people.
Communisme has not cause death in France like it did in the Soviet Union. Communist movement after World War II has largely contributed to improve the working conditions with reforms that are still fundamental workers rights in France today: minimum 2 weeks of paid holidays per year, 40 and then 35 hours per week standard work time, minimum wage, workers unions, and more. Nazis and the Vichy regim, on the other hand, are directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of death, deportation to the elimination camps, some of these camps on the French territory. Equating both is factually wrong and a revision of history as a political stunt.
There was no comunist government in France so it is absolutely irrelevant.
There was elected communist representative in the parlement, and communiste lead workers unions. They weighed on the legislative and executive powers. There was communiste mayors having local influence. Overall they made a difference as a part of a fairly diverse and fairly democratic system back then. This system is in danger today, when the majority in parlement and popular protests and petitions are being completely ignored by the government in place, and there isn’t much criticism from the mainstream media.
The two most murderous political movements of the twentieth century? Yeah they can both burn in hell.
Capitalism: hold my beer, I’ll wipe em all out!
That’s for the 21 century!