Just looking at the people around me (mostly colleagues, I’m not friends with this kind of people) it’s no surprise, when just about anything triggers them to vote AfD. Some actual examples:
“We have a vegetarian day at the cafeteria now. Stupid Greens forcing me to not eat meat one day a week. I’m going to vote AfD next election.”
“They built a new bicycle lane on my way to work. Now I’m forced to stick to the speed limit because of all the bicyclists on MY road blocking me. It’s a straight street, I should be able to go 80 even though it’s inner city. I’ve always been going 80 there! Stupid Greens, I’m going to vote AfD next election.”
“Supplier X stopped issuing their bikini model calendar. Everything is forbidden nowadays! Noone ever cared for bikini model calenders, but the Greens want to forbid every little piece of fun. Stupid woke culture. I’m going to vote AfD.”
And let’s not forget that one boss who told me that my life-threatening nut allergy was woke nonsense, because back in his day “everybody just ate what’s on the table and noone died, but nowadays everybody has to feel special by making up things they won’t eat.”
They just want to go back to 1950s culture, when gay people, trans people, allergies, ADHD, autism, veganism, climate change and anything other than straight white dudes and straight white housewives “didn’t exist”, because how dare the world be more complex than a Rosamunde Pilcher movie.
The German mindset to capitulate in the face of challenges that cant be solved by doing how things where allways done (since kohl).
By god, nobody wants things like wealth and inheritance taxes to be done like way back when (when they existed).
Ok, unfair the majority of Germans wants them, but this great democracy continuously produces Governments for and by the 1% irrespective of your vote.
Both the US and Germany want to return to their fascist roots it seems
Decades of capitalist decay and anti-communist propaganda will do that.
The see the US and realize it’s possible to do it all over again.
Is the proper response: Well shit.
They don’t even need to win elections, everyone was already discussing immigration because of propaganda & news (Messerattacke). They have set the agenda, this now is just more evidence of their success.
Sad.
This is why I keep telling people we are fucked by focusing in increasing military power in europe even if it appears and is obviously needed. We are going to put all the power at the hands of insane lunatics ready to wage war and put people in ovens.
It’s happening in all countries in Europe. I think in mine we’ll have elections next month or something like that and the extreme right is at 2nd or 3rd position ready to take first or will join hands with another to win. It was so close already last time. No matter how many crimes all their members do and show up in the news every week.
It’s what the people want. Most people everywhere are ok and want homicidal narcissist and sociopathic people in charge of them.
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If the government doesn’t fall like it does here regularly 😮💨
I have no trust in the current coalition to make that happen…
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Best of luck to you and your country staying sane-ish a little longer.
Did you not realize that they performed incredibly well in the elections? Social media is how they will overthrow the last remaining democracies. France, UK and Canada are next. All the young folks are increasingly more conservative and within 2-6 years, it’s going to be game over.
We really should stop using the term “conservative” for what the self proclaimed “conservative” parties are doing. Because they don’t conserve anything. They do the exact opposite. They exploit and destroy.
The correct term is reactionary.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, maybe people just don’t like to hear it. You’re not wrong.
To add, these people generally have more kids, and raise them to be conservative. It’s depressing. It might take some severe hardship on people to shift left again? Not sure what that is, hopefully not another world War.
The shift left is not happening until theres a major (most likely violent) crisis. As it is, America will become Russia 2.0 and this will probably be the staus quo for a while.
No, I didn’t. I’ve been drowning in depression keeping up with what is happening in the US.
No surprise considering CDU/CSU fucking up shit for the broad population from day one. They even suggested a 1000€ deductible for the health insurance.
Shit, in the US a $1000 deductible is what you get with pretty good insurance. My employer has a few plans and only one has a deductible below $1000.
Not to say that’s good. Just pointing out that the US has succumbed to capitalism.
Shit, in the US a $1000 deductible is what you get with pretty good insurance
US is not my standard when it comes to healthcare.
Everyone in germany pays 14% of his income as health insurance, you do not have a choice (except for a few people), there is a MASSIVE amount of money in the system. It’s just wasted left and right, so introducing a deductible is just the dumbest thing ever.
This is such a U.S. way of reporting things.
74% of people don’t want to be part of AfD.
One out every four people you meet being a literal nazi is tough tho
US: what about one out of every two?
It’s not. 74% are also not working on convincing disgruntled voters that AfD is just a shitsandwich and not an alternative that would improve anything. 26% for a single party that didn’t exist for long is huge and just shows how sick Germans are of the usual cdu/csu/spd/green/fdp bullshit.
The infuriating thing is that AfD voters would probably be better off with dieLinke.
Ive really been trying but every time theres a worse quagmire of information to wade through. “Like literal Trump fans. Jews own everything. Democracy is cool and all but really… sometimes we need other measures.” Theres just no way to talk back. Or even interact when in comes to politics.
Germans literally have so many choices of political parties that they can actually elect, why do they have to go for the worst one AfD?
I want to give oen example of how people on the fence can up on the wrong side, radicalized if you will. For the record I’m as far left as I can get. I support a lof of humanitarian causes and respect the decisions of others, particularly in sexuality or individual personal definitions. Be what you want, do what you want, be good, be fair. It’s easier than being rotten.
I’m only a resident of Germany, so every two years I need to renew my residency card, the Awshfksoyngelelemdn, or whatever that alphabet soup is called. I began the process 3 months before I was set to expire (Nov 2024). Surely, that would be enough time to get shit done at a rathaus that refuses to do any of this online. Oof, so wrong. JULY was the first appointment they would give me. My residency expired in April. No problem, they said. I can still live here since I made the appointment, just don’t leave Germany. I must leave Germany as that’s my job and why they moved me here from the US years back.
I begged to understand why the wait times are so long and the answer I got, from the rathaus, was that refugees from Syria and Palestine have been given the opportunity to migrate to my town and their processing is a priority. The only way I can get around that, to get an earlier appointment, would be to stand in the line when they open at 7:30am-12:00pm, M-F. I went there at 7am and the line wrapped around the block. I asked the person in the front of the line what time they got there. 4am.
I came back another day, at 4am, and got shit done, but that’s a huge brick in the wall for people already pissed they have to share with the lesser fortunate. I sucked it up. I get what they’re doing. But when Germans see just how poorly this is all being managed, they start listening to the assholes that promise to fix that… at all costs.
It’s a fkn drag. I had much higher hopes for Germany when I moved here, but now I’m left wondering what my next move is going to be. I refuse to be ruled by racist idiots. It’s a big reason behind why I happily left the US. Only hope will be that everyone sees the US administration tripping over their own dicks and come to their senses, but I’ve really lost faith after the 2024 election cycle.
It’s really tiring how all-or-nothing political parties like to be. Your choices are: · Help everyone, thus straining our resources thin and barely helping anyone · Fucking kill anyone who so much looks at us
I personally think “help yourself first so you can help others better”. How are you expected to take care of humanitarian issues when your own country is unraveled? You’re having your own humanitarian issue!
its a few factors in play, one is the normalization of far-right policies by the other big parties (SPD, Greens, Union) and their inability to fix the damage caused by the financial crisis of 2008, the rise of anti-migrant beliefs in the german working class, and a few others
i think this video explains well the rise of the AfD in germany, at this point its only a matter of time until one or more parties decide to make a coalition with the AfD
AfD is using fascist manipulation using propaganda (always putting immigrants and immigrant attacks in the spotlight) to gain power and discriminate immigrants even more, causing more retaliation which in turn makes people give the AfD even more power.
In a tolerant society we should not be tolerant of such intolerance.
And stil the state refuses to ban them, refuses to arrest and sentence their leaders.
It will be Weimar 2.0 with liberals being either too incompetent or too unwilling to stop fascism.
Fascism is not stopped at the podium or in parliament. It is stopped with bullets and bombs. The longer you wait the more bullets and bombs it will take and the more lives it will cost. We need a new, this time thorough, denazification.
bullets and bombs
I think it’s enough to just do: arrests of leaders (and banning them from public speaking but for life) + breaking up the party + outlawing the party + banning people who decide to take up the mantle of/act as a declared proxy for the party and attempt to visibly pick up where they left off.
That last one I learned from my own country’'s current situation: in Romania, a crazy far right candidate came out of nowhere (on the wings of illegal undisclosed campaign donations) to win the first round, and as soon as that happened our mainstream far right party’s candidate started supporting him. Then they canceled the election because of the undisclosed donations (he literally declared 0 campaign spending!) so now, in the redo of the election, this other guy is basically running as his proxy and will likely try to appoint him PM if he wins.
Ideally arrests and executions will be enough. I think letting fascists live out their lives in prison is too dangerous. Too many political enemies have been released historically after government changes. Hitler himself didn’t even have to serve for life and was released early.
Liberal does not mean leftist outside of the USA. Liberal actually means what is called libertarian in the USA.
I have not called liberals leftist and never would. I’m not on that American brainrot.
Weimar was a small civil war between soldiers who returned from WW1. That’s why both the left and the right had fighters. Where should the fighters who shoot the bullets come from now?
The fascists came to power because the elite feared that the communists could win. Otherwise, despite massive manipulation, the fascists never got an absolute majority.
There are many issues that other parties simply ignore. There would be far less voteres for the AfD if the other parties would listen. The AfD started with the demand that the rules about euro stability shouldn’t be ignored. That’s not a fascist position.
The other parties are not taking up AfDs made up causes because they are made up.
For example:
A sack of potatoes falls.
AfD: Foreigners are causing the sacks to fall! We must gas them! And the jews!
Other parties: This is so stupid it doesn’t even warrant a response.
General public: but the foreigners!!111!1!!!11 and the potatoes!!1! I am outraged!!!111!!!
Unfortunately, the other parties are very well taking up the Nazis’ lies. The Nazis are playing the political establishment like a fiddle.
To stick with your example of the potato sack, the established parties do just jump the Nazi bandwagon and parrot their narrative in a less extreme manner, like “Illegal immigrants kicking over potato sacks is a severe problem, we need to protect our potato sacks by border controls and increased deportations.”
Just as one AfD politician remarked last year, (after the election in Thuringia, if I recall right) the AfD is ruling without actually being in the government.
I don’t think that you make a good point if you yourself make up your point. Please quote the AfD to avoid all doubt.
Of course. Here is an AfD quote:
Sieg Heil! Gas the jews!
Hope that makes it clearer.
Don’t you see that false quotes undermine your position?
But it isn’t false. They are literal nazis and say literal nazi things.
Several offices for the protection of the constitution of the German Länder (they are a kind of anti-extremist intelligence services, in case you don’t know) have found them to be “assuredly right-wing-extremists”, which is the worst possible classification the law recognises.
Again. Literal, actual, nazis.
Yes. That’s why you should quote what they literally say. It’s not a quote if you write what you think they say.
Using bullets and bombs would make the rest not better than the fascists, so lets not use them.
We don’t need to be tolerant to the intolerant.
No it wouldn’t, it would make you smart enough to speak to the fascists in the only language they understand. Words don’t work against fascists because they don’t care what words mean. Better to defend yourself now while you still can.
War and violence have existed long before fascism. It’s not their invention or monopoly.
True. But I don’t want the world to be that bad. I want to live without war and violence.
Once they take power, the only thing that can stop them is bullets and bombs. And Fascists do have a nasty habit of shooting first, if you let them.
David Kriesel is amazing! Didn’t know about this. Very useful.
Yes, he’s great data scientist. He has more stuff on his webpage, e.g. bias analysis of the different polling institutes, be sure to check it out if you like!
So CDU is just AfD in disguise…
More like the decline of CDU is directly proportional to rise in AfD. Could be a number of reasons, such as alienating fringe voters on singular issues such as defense or trans, or it could be that CDU officials don’t show the same animosity towards far right that they used to have.
I read 50% of the men in Germany died in ww2 ….but yea cool Nazis what could go wrong.? Fuck around and find out I guess
And 60 million others.
Yep nothing good ever comes from supporting facists
It’s baffling how those self proclaimed patriots can celebrate a bunch of traitors who ruined their country by killing off a significant part of its population and starting an unwinnable war that left the country in ruins.
…and after the War the allies fell over themselves to get former Nazi ministers reelected. The CDP was funded by the US State Department for decades.
Who is going to fight them this time? The US and the UK are heading down the same path with the US far out in the lead and Russia is already an authoritarian state. France and Canada aren’t enough to stand up against this wave of naziism.
☹️
I mean, why vote CDU if they are doing the same shit as AFD but are not as good at it?
We don’t know how good AFD would be at doing, what they claim. But none of the parties who have been in power over the last 20-30 years have done anything significant to improve the average workers economic status (e.g. make housing affordable, guarantee a reasonable pension, lessen the fear of unemployment, etc.). AFD claims, “if we get rid of the immigrants, everything will be better again” and people are believing it.
I’ve seen some negative reporting on afd Landesregierung, where we can see them act in power. Unfortunately I can’t point to any right now.
Take care of the nazi problem before they take care of you. You already know how that works. Stop allowing them to broadcast nazi propaganda as if it was news.
Many of those aren’t real votes but “protest” support. Very dumb imo. They’re hoping its a wakeup to the other parties but it really just emboldens the afd.
Please look at the US and what’s happening here right now.
A significant portion of Trump’s voters in 2016 were protest anti-establishment voters and they’ve been converted into full on Fascist voters in the 8 years since then.
Nah I don’t buy it. Nazis voting for nazis know what they are doing. AfDs plan is clear, like project 2025 was and their voters like what they see and should be treated and handled accordingly.
Okay well in German and I know some of these idiots. It’s true. Of course some are literally Nazis. You see the same thing in the US as well. Don’t take my reply as defending these people.
Are they dumber than the parties that didn’t get the message?
Can confirm they’re generally quite dumb.
Everybody in Germany. Please talk to family members that you don’t talk to about how this is dangerous to you. I know I have these in my family that I should invest in instead of always talking to the closest ones. Also make sure to beat them with genuine questions that break open their confidence in the reasoning with the socratic way (epistemology)
- What? Belief.
- Why? Reason
- How? Method for Proof
Or
- Identify Persuasion
- Question “What is it actually”, definition –In between ask for scale 1-10 how confident into the topic are you and importance queries
- Why do you believe that?
- How could one determine whether this is really true? –In between the scale and importance queries
- Best argument for and strongest argument against?
- Reflect, i.e. repeat what has been said in your own words eighthly
It’s not about being well versed in the topic of conversation But good questions
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This!
The best strategy is to engage in genuine conversations.
Most people just label the unknowledgable as stupid and attempt to desperately convince them with a bombardment of facts and counter-arguments. Even worse is just calling them “Nazi” and leave it at that. This is futile with some people who have gone down too deep into the hate-train of social media. They will immediately mentally blockade what you’re saying and the cycle continues.
It’s way more effective to get into a friendly conversation and actually engage with what they are saying. Listen. Ask questions. Listen. Ask questions. Understand why they believe what they believe. Be open to their arguments, however rediculous you might find them.
The most important thing you need to realize that it’s not their fault and they are not stupid! They are just the output of their environment. Everyone has emotions. And everyone deals with them differently. Everyone has their environment. And everyone sources their information from that environment. Everyone has parts of their lives where they are misinformed or less educated than an expert in the field. You too! Consequently, the way to change someone’s belief is to change their environment while understanding their emotional basis.
and everyone is at a different stage in their life. If i’d have to talk to 10-years-ago-me I wouldnt agree with them in beliefs that are still held today pretty commonly
